Yes, but I have also learned with live in a life full of stories. So many different stories and so many different realities it becomes difficult to see exactly what is the "truth".
Hey Antonio, first of all, thanks for engaging and thanks for being entirely reasonable. I like the writing style, I like the narrative drive, you're skilled at discarding redundant exposition, so you've obviously been writing _a lot_.
lemme get to your message, I'm in no position to comment on anyone's writing, but just... fwiw.
I was reading through this and you wrote, "Children believe what they’re told. Why wouldn’t they?"
I'm not sure the premise behind this assumption holds up. I agree, children _believe_ what they're told, but that's not quite the process. I remember my process as a child like this....
Something something fact--why?--something something because--why?--something something because I said so--why?
I've never accepted anything anyone's ever told me ever. i think children are wired to be inquisitive, and the processes your story explores demonstrates perfectly how adults _can_ quash children's natural inquisitiveness with nonsense etc...
The other thing is, I think it's a bit of leap to suggest her--very likely entirely innocent fabrication of planets--as a demonstration of _misinformation_. To me, that's a whole different can of worms.
I'm reading a very interesting obviously competently written story but within a few paragraphs I am not sure some of the intended premises you're attempting to explore through narrative hold up.
Are children really _that_ gullible? Just believe the authority figure. I never did. That doesn't even make sense to me.
If a teacher fabricates her sexy planet story... does that equate to _misinformation_? Maybe I got this wrong, but based on that assumption you just made fiction a thought crime.
So... my analogy is--as I'm reading this--this wagon is running off the road.
Btw, you were never a fool for believing. Being too harsh on yourself. You were just a kid. What do kids know.
I'm an adult and I don't believe a goddamned thing anyone ever says ever. Because my enduring lesson has been that everyone is always mostly full of shit.
Science calls it skepticism. Nothing wrong with skepticism at all.
How do you know a critique is full of shit. When it's longer than the work it's pretending to critique.
So, take it all with a grain of salt. You're a good dude. Your teacher wasn't spreading misinformation. Scientists are just people who suffer from confirmation biases so insufferably preposterous people like us can't convince them they're full of shit.
Don't believe anything anyone ever says. Ever. Figure it out for yourself. I got this from Terence McKenna via Marshall McLuhan via Wittgenstein... we don't need search for absolute truths. That's probably impossible. At the same time, we have to make hard decisions in life. What's true, what's not. Critical questions. There's a pandemic. What's true. What's not.
Wittgenstein proposed, in order to inform yourself, things only need to be _true enough_ In other words, always, and under all circumstances, truth is provisional. Things are true, until they no longer are.
So... your eighth planet was real, until it no longer was. It served its purpose. That's not misinformation. That's good storytelling.
Thanks for reading. How do you know I must be full of shit? I prolly wrote more than you did, and this isn't even a story.
Man, just the fact that you took the time to write this is an honour in itself. It means a lot that someone took my text seriously, so thank you.
You’re right, children are inquisitive, but I’d argue not about everything. I remember questioning Santa Claus to the point where it was no fun for anyone else. Yet when someone told me about the planets, I believed in “The Eighth” just as easily as I believed in the others. Questioning each one individually wouldn’t have been productive. If you’ve read my other story about my teacher, you’ll see there wasn’t much room for questioning in that environment either.
Also, don’t forget, not all kids are alike. You might have questioned everything, but the rest of us did what we could.
The tone is meant to be dramatic and tongue-in-cheek. I do think that teacher was an idiot, but I’m not necessarily saying she was spreading misinformation. What I’m saying is that it was very easy for me to spread misinformation while I still believed in “The Eighth.” It’s more of a commentary on how wrong information calcifies.
I could’ve clung to that belief about the planet even after I found out the truth. I could’ve gone into denial, evangelised it, or even created a cult around it. I could’ve become one of those flat-earthers who make flat earth their entire personality. Misinformation, in my view, is less about giving wrong information and more about the refusal to accept new information.
But you’ve got me on one point. A part of me does believe there’s an absolute truth outside of us—that if you look long enough, you’ll find it. That our job is, so to speak, to get out of our own way.
Recently a foundational, fundamental belief, regarding my origin story, once only shared by my mother, changed drastically, after my father died. They divorced when I was two, 55 years ago. When I learned my father's story from my step-mom, I was shocked to the core. In the end, I have chosen not to challenge my mom's story, even though it reveals her manipulative, controlling tendencies.
I invested my currency of time and took a deep dive into the systems that generate my beliefs. I've learned in life that my happiness greatly depends on how I alchemize energy - emotional, mental, physical and spiritual. When I am shaken to the core, then I need to address my core. My beliefs may form as a result of stories that are truly not mine. It takes work to construct beliefs that are mine while also working to change them in time.
I had to determine that neither story was truly mine, rather a rendition of their personal experiences, perceptions and core beliefs. Each of them brought unhealed pain to their very young relationship, therefore their wounds must be accounted for in my assimilation of their stories... I did not truly get to know my father until I was 35. He was a Vietnam Vet and had accrued a lot more pain by that time, unfortunately his choice to enlist happened as a result of my mom's pregnancy. She, sadly has run victim energy her entire life. I have listened to her tales of suffering and pain my entire life. She did her best to cast enough shame and blame on him to keep me to herself.... It's messy.
Truth is my thoughts and my emotions are my responsibility regardless of the circumstance they originated in. That is the past. Now is the only time I can alchemize the energy in my life. If it is negative, toxic or life inhibiting, I am the only one who can change it. :)
Once I thought the pattern of associations that helped with remembering things was called 'mnemonic,' but now I see it’s actually 'pneumonic'👀. Unless you wrote it that way to trip us up, given the whole 'misinformation' theme—if so, you got me!
I watched a lot of Chinese historical dramas and tv critics always hit them hard for distorting the truth. But what is the truth of history? History is told from the pov of the winners. I think truth is just truth until someone else comes along and prove it wrong.
I grew up when Pluto was called a planet and so for me, it remains our 9th planet. By what real authority does anyone have to demote it?
Thanks for sharing!
Mel
So for you, planet Pluto is truth?
Yes, but I have also learned with live in a life full of stories. So many different stories and so many different realities it becomes difficult to see exactly what is the "truth".
Mel
Yeah, I guess I distinguish truth as your brain being hardwired for Pluto, regardless if its a planet or not.
Mine is hardwire for The Eighth, its not true, but to some degree is truth.
Hey Antonio, first of all, thanks for engaging and thanks for being entirely reasonable. I like the writing style, I like the narrative drive, you're skilled at discarding redundant exposition, so you've obviously been writing _a lot_.
lemme get to your message, I'm in no position to comment on anyone's writing, but just... fwiw.
I was reading through this and you wrote, "Children believe what they’re told. Why wouldn’t they?"
I'm not sure the premise behind this assumption holds up. I agree, children _believe_ what they're told, but that's not quite the process. I remember my process as a child like this....
Something something fact--why?--something something because--why?--something something because I said so--why?
I've never accepted anything anyone's ever told me ever. i think children are wired to be inquisitive, and the processes your story explores demonstrates perfectly how adults _can_ quash children's natural inquisitiveness with nonsense etc...
The other thing is, I think it's a bit of leap to suggest her--very likely entirely innocent fabrication of planets--as a demonstration of _misinformation_. To me, that's a whole different can of worms.
I'm reading a very interesting obviously competently written story but within a few paragraphs I am not sure some of the intended premises you're attempting to explore through narrative hold up.
Are children really _that_ gullible? Just believe the authority figure. I never did. That doesn't even make sense to me.
If a teacher fabricates her sexy planet story... does that equate to _misinformation_? Maybe I got this wrong, but based on that assumption you just made fiction a thought crime.
So... my analogy is--as I'm reading this--this wagon is running off the road.
Btw, you were never a fool for believing. Being too harsh on yourself. You were just a kid. What do kids know.
I'm an adult and I don't believe a goddamned thing anyone ever says ever. Because my enduring lesson has been that everyone is always mostly full of shit.
Science calls it skepticism. Nothing wrong with skepticism at all.
How do you know a critique is full of shit. When it's longer than the work it's pretending to critique.
So, take it all with a grain of salt. You're a good dude. Your teacher wasn't spreading misinformation. Scientists are just people who suffer from confirmation biases so insufferably preposterous people like us can't convince them they're full of shit.
Don't believe anything anyone ever says. Ever. Figure it out for yourself. I got this from Terence McKenna via Marshall McLuhan via Wittgenstein... we don't need search for absolute truths. That's probably impossible. At the same time, we have to make hard decisions in life. What's true, what's not. Critical questions. There's a pandemic. What's true. What's not.
Wittgenstein proposed, in order to inform yourself, things only need to be _true enough_ In other words, always, and under all circumstances, truth is provisional. Things are true, until they no longer are.
So... your eighth planet was real, until it no longer was. It served its purpose. That's not misinformation. That's good storytelling.
Thanks for reading. How do you know I must be full of shit? I prolly wrote more than you did, and this isn't even a story.
Man, just the fact that you took the time to write this is an honour in itself. It means a lot that someone took my text seriously, so thank you.
You’re right, children are inquisitive, but I’d argue not about everything. I remember questioning Santa Claus to the point where it was no fun for anyone else. Yet when someone told me about the planets, I believed in “The Eighth” just as easily as I believed in the others. Questioning each one individually wouldn’t have been productive. If you’ve read my other story about my teacher, you’ll see there wasn’t much room for questioning in that environment either.
Also, don’t forget, not all kids are alike. You might have questioned everything, but the rest of us did what we could.
The tone is meant to be dramatic and tongue-in-cheek. I do think that teacher was an idiot, but I’m not necessarily saying she was spreading misinformation. What I’m saying is that it was very easy for me to spread misinformation while I still believed in “The Eighth.” It’s more of a commentary on how wrong information calcifies.
I could’ve clung to that belief about the planet even after I found out the truth. I could’ve gone into denial, evangelised it, or even created a cult around it. I could’ve become one of those flat-earthers who make flat earth their entire personality. Misinformation, in my view, is less about giving wrong information and more about the refusal to accept new information.
But you’ve got me on one point. A part of me does believe there’s an absolute truth outside of us—that if you look long enough, you’ll find it. That our job is, so to speak, to get out of our own way.
no worries… I write incredibly fast… lmao….
funny you mentioned Santa… that’s exactly the thing that turned me against absolute truths for the rest of my life. fucking Santa….
Misinformation is everywhere…at schools as well…
On schools today I have no idea. But when I was young for sure.
Recently a foundational, fundamental belief, regarding my origin story, once only shared by my mother, changed drastically, after my father died. They divorced when I was two, 55 years ago. When I learned my father's story from my step-mom, I was shocked to the core. In the end, I have chosen not to challenge my mom's story, even though it reveals her manipulative, controlling tendencies.
I invested my currency of time and took a deep dive into the systems that generate my beliefs. I've learned in life that my happiness greatly depends on how I alchemize energy - emotional, mental, physical and spiritual. When I am shaken to the core, then I need to address my core. My beliefs may form as a result of stories that are truly not mine. It takes work to construct beliefs that are mine while also working to change them in time.
First of all thank for your comment and for reading, and thank so for a large comment, I love to read it.
So if I may ask, in the end did you take one story and rejected the other completely or is there within you a mix of both that you life with?
(Hope my question makes sense)
I had to determine that neither story was truly mine, rather a rendition of their personal experiences, perceptions and core beliefs. Each of them brought unhealed pain to their very young relationship, therefore their wounds must be accounted for in my assimilation of their stories... I did not truly get to know my father until I was 35. He was a Vietnam Vet and had accrued a lot more pain by that time, unfortunately his choice to enlist happened as a result of my mom's pregnancy. She, sadly has run victim energy her entire life. I have listened to her tales of suffering and pain my entire life. She did her best to cast enough shame and blame on him to keep me to herself.... It's messy.
Truth is my thoughts and my emotions are my responsibility regardless of the circumstance they originated in. That is the past. Now is the only time I can alchemize the energy in my life. If it is negative, toxic or life inhibiting, I am the only one who can change it. :)
Just goes to show that the only thing that is true of stories is our relationship with them.
Have you had the moment of "generational trauma ends here!"?
Yes and have taken action regarding that my entire life.My children have less work to do now. ;)
Once I thought the pattern of associations that helped with remembering things was called 'mnemonic,' but now I see it’s actually 'pneumonic'👀. Unless you wrote it that way to trip us up, given the whole 'misinformation' theme—if so, you got me!
Oh No! You got me there I cannot lie. I thought it was the right spelling… I wish I could play 4D chest like that.
Should I edit or just leave your comment to shine?
I was engrossed by this post, but now I'm getting even more engrossed by this comment section back and forth. I don't know who or what to believe!
There is some 4D chess being played by Dr Tukur
Ahah, no worries! Honestly, it fits the theme, so I’d say leave it—lets others catch it too!
Absolutely, well you read about my teacher... You can't expect good spelling.
😂
I watched a lot of Chinese historical dramas and tv critics always hit them hard for distorting the truth. But what is the truth of history? History is told from the pov of the winners. I think truth is just truth until someone else comes along and prove it wrong.
Very true. My teacher taught a version of history where we only won battles, so it doesn't even make sense.